Chinese Delegates Go Ballistic at Model UN Event

A delegation of Chinese students at the Harvard Model United Nations held Jan. 29 to Feb. 1 made a dreadful discovery when they cracked open this year’s conference handbook. What they saw was so offensive that they made a scene, and several members of the group (the adult supervisors, as it turns out) ended up being expelled from a meeting. Two words were at the heart of the kerfuffle: Taiwan and country.

There is something about Taiwan that sometimes brings out the very worst in many a Chinese overseas. Time and again, Chinese young and old have gone haywire at academic settings whenever someone dared to argue that Taiwan may actually be a country rather than a province of China, as Beijing claims. When that happens, they just snap. They scream, storm out, threaten, gang up on others, and intimidate whoever stands in their way, including school authorities.

This is dispiriting for at least two reasons: It demonstrates that exposure to Western ideas and a liberal education is insufficient to bust the nationalistic doctrine that was drilled into young Chinese from a very young age; and it gives the whole body of Chinese, many of whom are much more open minded on the Taiwan “question,” a bad reputation.

A full account of the incident from the perspective of one of the Chinese participants is available (in Chinese) here. To make a long story short: During the first HMUN2015 meeting, which took place at the Sheraton Hotel in Boston on the evening of Jan. 29 , the head of the Chinese delegation discovered that the conference handbook contained the word Taiwan in its list of “international participants by country” (some of the participants were from the Taipei American School). Immediately, the Chinese side requested that the “error” be corrected. Taiwan, they said, is not a country and it isn’t a UN member. As such, the handbook should be modified to read “country or region.” The Secretariat refused, however, and the dispute continued the next day, with the Chinese side accusing the organizers of having a “poor understanding” of international relations. The situation continued to deteriorate until the organizers asked security personnel at the hotel to remove some members of the Chinese delegation and threatened to call the police. “Your presence makes us uncomfortable,” they said.

In a Jan. 31 e-mail message to the Chinese delegation, Ruth Kagan, Secretary-General of HMUN2015, explained why changes to the handbook were not necessary:

Harvard Model United Nations publishes in its conference handbook the country of origin as reported by each delegation without modification. The inclusion of Taiwan is not meant as a political statement by the conference, nor does that listing represent the views of the Harvard International Relations Council.

Again, the conference handbook is copyright property and cannot be reproduced, in whole or in part, in print or electronically, without written permission.

Furthermore, although Taiwan appeared in the list of countries by participants, it did not figure in the actual UN conference (according to one of the students, the Taiwanese were assigned the Holy See, which has no voting powers). Still, this did little to persuade the Chinese students, who argued that while they do not seek conflict with their “Taiwanese compatriots,” the mention of Taiwan, which is “clearly not a sovereign state,” was an “inexcusable mistake” on the part of the organizers.

HMUN2015 then tried to meet the Chinese halfway. In an e-mail dated Feb. 1, Louisa Carman, Under-Secretary-General for Administration, wrote:

Hello, we hope you have enjoyed your experience at HMUN! I just wanted to let you know that if you would like stickers that say “by Country and Region” to add to your delegates’ handbooks you may pick them up at Delegate Services until 12pm today. I hope that this improves your experience. Please fell free to let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.

That didn’t satisfy the Chinese delegation either.

“Still no apology, no statement,” one of them wrote before embarking on a diatribe against American democracy and freedom of expression, which were a sham because the Chinese had clearly faced discrimination. The Chinese were the victims of discrimination because the Secretariat refused to allow them to discriminate against the Taiwanese. So much for logic.

Beyond doubt the organizers of HMUN2015 acted sensibly in the situation. They refused to be pressured by hotheads, and they pushed back just enough to maintain their integrity. If only we could see this more often!

Now the real question is, what will the handbook say next year? The Chinese have long perfected the art of whittling away at other people’s resistance until the latter change their views without noticing it. Will the Secretariat, perhaps wanting to avoid a new round of confrontations, simply give in to the Chinese students’ demands and use the designation “country and region” in their handbook? Or will they do the right thing and stick to their guns? Stay tuned!

(Updated 2015.02.06 10:01 am)
(Second Update 2015.02.11 9:24 am)

中國學生在模擬聯合國會議上暴跳如雷 (Trans. by William Tsai)

愛國又驕傲的中國學生在國外的聲勢越來越龐大,往往在關鍵議題上任意欺凌他人,但未必每次都能得逞。

前往哈佛大學參加今年1月29日到2月1日模擬聯合國會議的中國學生代表團,一翻開會議手冊就又驚又怒。他們看見的內容是如此冒犯,使得他們大吵大鬧起來,最後有好幾位團員被請出會場。這一團混亂全都起於兩個關鍵字:「台灣」和「國家」。

一說到台灣,總有些事情會讓許多在世界各地的中國學生表現出最惡劣的一面。一次又一次,在學術會議上,只要有誰膽敢主張台灣實際上應該是個國家,而不是北京當局宣稱的中國一省,中國的年輕人就會失去控制。每到這個時候,他們就逕自暴走,高聲咆哮、衝出會場、出言威脅、串聯他人抵制,並且挑釁恫嚇任何覺得礙眼的人,包括就讀學校的校方。

如此現象令人灰心失望,原因至少有二:這說明了接觸西方思想和接受自由主義教育,仍不足以動搖中國年輕人從小就被灌輸的民族主義教條。這種行為也讓全體中國學生蒙受惡名,但他們之中其實有許多人對台灣「問題」是更寬容的。

其中一位中國學生已經用中文在網際網路上發表了他們一方的事件全紀錄。長話短說:1月29日晚上,在波士頓喜來登飯店召開的2015年哈佛大學模擬聯合國會議(HMUN2015)第一次領隊會議上,中國代表團領隊發現會議手冊將台灣列入「各國與會名單」一欄之中(有幾位與會者來自台北美國學校)。中國方面立刻要求大會「糾正」錯誤,他們宣稱,台灣不是國家,更不是聯合國會員國,所以應當將手冊這一欄改為「國家或地區」。但會議秘書長拒絕,爭論因此延續到隔天,中國方面譴責主辦單位「不具備基本國際關係常識」,事態自此不斷惡化,最後主辦單位要求飯店警衛將中國代表團其中幾位團員請出會場,並揚言報警處理。他們說:「你們在這裡會讓我們不舒服。」

HMUN2015會議的秘書長Ruth Kagan在1月31日寄電子郵件給中國代表團,說明會議手冊為何不需修改:

「哈佛大學模擬聯合國會議是按照每一位與會代表報名時自行填寫的國籍列出與會國家的,不做任何更動。將台灣列入名單絕非大會的政治表態,更與哈佛模擬聯合國會議的立場無關。

在此重申,會議手冊版權所有,未經書面同意,全部或部分內容皆不得以印刷或數位方式複製。」

不僅如此,就算台灣被列入各國與會名單之中,來自台灣的與會者仍然不算是正式聯合國會議的代表(其中一位台灣與會學生說,台灣被安排在羅馬教廷的位置上,沒有投票權)。但中國學生仍然不依不饒,他們表示無意與「台灣同胞」爭論,但主辦單位提到「明明不是一個主權國家」的台灣仍然是「不可寬恕的錯誤」。

隨後HMUN2015試圖作出讓步。大會副秘書長Louisa Carman在2月1日寄出電子郵件:

「您好,我們希望您在哈佛模擬聯合國會議的參與愉快!我只是要通知各位,你們若是需要『國家或地區』的貼紙貼在貴團代表的手冊上,可在今晚十二點之前到代表服務處領取。希望這能讓你們的與會體驗更加完善。還有任何問題或疑慮的話,請隨時告知。」

這還是無法滿足中國代表團。

「依舊沒有道歉,沒有聲明。」中國代表團其中一位團員寫道,接著是一長串針對美國民主及言論自由的冷嘲熱諷,由於中國代表團明顯遭受歧視對待,什麼民主人權和言論自由都是騙局。中國人受到歧視,只因為會議秘書長拒不允許他們歧視台灣人,好一套邏輯。

HMUN2015的主辦單位對這種狀況的處理,無疑是很明智的。他們既不屈服於愛國憤青的壓力,做出的讓步也不致妨害他們的誠信。但願我們能看到更多這樣的應對!

於是真正的問題來了:明年的會議手冊要怎麼寫呢?中國人長久以來削弱他人抗拒,並在不知不覺中將對方潛移默化的手段可說是爐火純青。下屆的會議秘書長會為了避免新一波衝突而聽從中國學生要求,在手冊裡改用「國家或地區」?還是會繼續堅持做對的事?且讓我們拭目以待。

71 thoughts on “Chinese Delegates Go Ballistic at Model UN Event”

  1. Interesting report, and compelling photo. It’s not captioned…. is the photo from HMUN2015? If not, could you please tell us where the photo was taken and by whom?

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  2. Hi. Thanks for the comment. No, the photo is not from HMUN2015. It’s from last year’s 228 Massacre commemorations at Liberty Square in Taipei, and I took it. We’re still trying to fix issues with the captions for the top photos in the article pages. Unless indicated otherwise at the bottom of an article, all photos are by me/Thinking Taiwan.

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  3. As an HMUN alum, I feel quite sure that there is not going to be any amendments due to this extremely minor situation.
    Also, kudos to the USG Admin and her team for responding with a very classy and smart move. I know this is HMUN and not HNMUN, but I feel like quoting, “We accommodate fuckers.”

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  4. Great article Mr. Cole! I’ve had the same experience quite a few times with Mainland expats in Canada, France and Hong Kong. I still cannot understand why though…

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  5. Why I don’t find “Taiwan” in HMUN2015 Country Names List? http://www.harvardmun.org/assets/pdfs/HMUN-2015-Country-Assignments.pdf

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  6. I really like your juxtaposition on liberal education behavior vs. nationalistic mindset/manner. I also like your emphasis on how the Taiwan topic can drive some Chinese students to the point of bully and intimidation onto whoever does not agree with them. It is also quite bizarre how Chinese student expected and demanded an apology as they were a victim of this situation. Additionally, I really enjoy reading how the HMUN Secretary-General reacted to the complaint/protest. I personally hope that the Secretariat will stick to their guns and act courageously the way the world tell kids to not back down from bullies.

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  7. What are the differences between Chinese stand on Taiwan and ISIS on human rights? “Eating flesh with forks and knoves”

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  8. They behave as taught to behave, a bit like lab animals, and in some cases, they are forced to do so whenever there is a Taiwan related event so as to keep their scholarships! As you say, let’s stay tuned for next year to see if Harvard has principles, or balls…

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  9. Ever seen a conservative, religious American react to people calling their country the worst warmongerer and human rights violator on the planet? Nationalist behaviour isn’t unique to Chinese people nor are they the worst when it comes to their reactions when their ideals are questioned.

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  10. J.k. Tsai 阿維提供的英文文章是”Thinking Taiwan”,有讀者質疑文章圖片,作者回答是”去年二二八紀念㑹照的”,我覺得文章內容的正確性,已經留言問作者「Why I don’t see Taiwan in UMUN2015 的文件」?靜候作者的回答!

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  11. Like lab animals? Frankly I’m offended you would refer to any of my peers with such a description, while they did overreact to the situation your description of the Chinese students is equally as disgusting.

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  12. Haha. Nice!
    The poor discriminated students chose membership in UN as a criterion of being country. Fine. How about another one – recognition by all members of UN? In that case, China would not be country either. I am wondering what would be their reaction…
    Anyway, thank you, Michael, for great work and great website.

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  13. Thanks for the question, JK. That’s because what your are looking at is the General Assembly list, not the handbook. As the article says, Taiwan was not mentioned in the exercise itself. In other words, Taiwan wasn’t a country that could be represented during the session, which makes the reaction of the Chinese students all the more deplorable.

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  14. Lucy: you seem oblivious to so many things about China’s brand of nationalism and public diplomacy. All over the world, not only students, but business people, academics, and of course diplomats, are trained to believe into the mythology that Taiwan, somehow, belongs to the PRC. Their promotion efforts are tied to it, whatever the field they operate in. So they fight in any battle they can fight in.
    If you inform yourself a bit better, you will see that the new emperor Xi is pushing the envelope to the extreme, even advocating, through his education minister, to rachet out of universities any notion of universal values, democracy, western values, etc… The nine point memo he gave to the Politburo upon becoming the boss on this is crystal clear. He has also made a point of “solving” the “Taiwan issue” under his helm.
    Many of these bullying students are just part of the game. And as I put it, as lab animals caught into the game, they unfortunately play the game. And many of them are duty bound, not few of which are the sons and daughters of the elite of the CCP. Check on your “peers” background, which may take a lot of hard work!
    But as Michael pointed out, many Chinese students (not dependent on the scholarships they get from China, and therefore not under so much scrutiny from PRC embassies) do not think like the hordes who follow the regimes’ thinking on Taiwan. Ask Wang Dan
    Maybe I should have used the word automats instead of lab animals…

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  15. Werner Barg. Yes, conservative, right-wing Christians in America can be belligerent. But their belligerence isn’t a byproduct of the education system. In fact most of these conservative, right-wing Christians think the US education system is far too liberal and progressive. On the other hand, the Chinese education system produces belligerent students like those in this article. They are a pathologically proud byproduct of a dangerously nationalistic “patriotic education” that connects the contemporary world to historical narratives of victimization and humiliation.

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  16. “it gives the whole body of Chinese students, many of whom are much more open minded on the Taiwan “question,”
    Could the author or someone else elaborate the opinion of those “more open minded Chinese students”? What vision do they have with respect for Taiwan?

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  17. Chinese delegate’s response is just normal. Imagine this kind of incident happens in UN. Chinese delegate will surely response more aggressively than this. (Of course, in real UN, there is no chance this is gonna happen…) Every party in UN fights for their own interest. It is understandable, not “Ballistic”.

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  18. As much as people would like to consider Taiwan an independent country, under the frame of the UN it is still not, thus I feel it perfectly fine for Chinese students to argue and seek to correct the political inaccuracy in the Model UN handbook. I don’t think it fair to say such actions are a discrimination against Taiwan, otherwise the UN would be flag bearer of such discrimination. I’m not sure if the event had delegates from Israel and Palestine. Imagine how the Israelis would react if Palestine was listed as a country? I don’ know if these Chinese students lost their manners and grace during the argument that made them look like bullies, but I just think the ground they stood on was understandable and justified.

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  19. You didn’t read carefully, I think. Taiwan wasn’t participating as a member country, it was only listed as nationality of participants. Everybody has right to choose that, and everyone should respect that (that’s btw perfectly in line with UN’s human rights provisions). Also, UN models aren’t organised by the UN and it’s absolute right of organisers to decide what the rules are, even if they decide to have Taiwan as participating nation. So argument that UN would be flagbearer of alleged discrimination is nonsensical.

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  20. Taiwan (properly, the Republic of China) has not been a part of China (PRC) since 1895. From 1895 to 1945 it was a prefecture of Japan (it could arguably be said that between 1945 and 1949 it was on paper as part of Nationalist China under President Chiang Kai-Shek, however). Taiwan is an independent nation, period. If Taiwan were part of China, then why do PRC citizens need a visa to visit? They have their own constitution, currency, government, army and navy, just like any sovereign nation.The rest of it is political nonsense. Furthermore, Taiwan is one of the wealthiest nations in the world. Much of China’s manufacturing capacity consists of Taiwanese owned and run factories. Having lived in Taiwan for any years, I can tell you that Taiwanese are a highly educated, urbane, and sophisticated people who have very little in common with the people now living across the Taiwan strait. On average, over seventy percent of the Taiwanese population polled in recent years have rejected the idea of having any ties with China other than trade and tourism. So, stop the posturing and take a hard look at reality. Taiwan is a vibrant democracy and the seventh largest economy in the world. It is not some backward island province of China; although that is what it would be if were a part of China today.

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  21. Just have the Taiwanese complain next year if it’s changed so they can change it back for the year after.

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  22. Asking the Taiwanese students is unnecessary, they don’t even represent a real country, as I’m sure any Chinese person would tell you :p

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  23. Boris, I think Lucy’s point was that dehumanising people is not the way of good argument, and I must agree with her. One can surely make point without that.

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  24. If people do not put themselves into the circumstances, they will not understand this feeling of Mainland delegates. Consider the following example, Americans. If in a Chinese Model UN conference, the committee recognise Texas or Porto Rico as independent country, what would you think and what would you react? This conflict was simply caused by the different perspective people have. If you are not a Chinese, your criticisms are potentially just a conjecture. I can certainly observe bias in this article and the comments. If you believe that mainlanders are that belligerent, I’m sorry, you are wrong. This topic is usually avoided by mainlanders unless it becomes aggressive. So, the main idea is to change a perspective, which is hard because of the differences in culture.

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  25. Usual stuff. Agree with unification and you’re great; disagree with that contention, and you’re “biased” or worse, “ant-China.” Your two analogies are wrong, as both Puerto Rico and Texas are legally part of the sovereign state that is the United States. That isn’t the case – not morally, and certainly not legally – with Taiwan (or the Republic of China if you prefer) and the People’s Republic of China. I’m sure many Mainlanders avoid the topic, but many do not as well, and please don’t suggest that it is the other party, the Taiwanese, that are “aggressive” in the matter. Lastly, regarding your other trope (not Chinese, therefore cannot understand the issue), then what do you make of the ~90% of Taiwanese who do not support unification with China (either they support independence, or the “status quo,” which stands for de facto independence)? Problem is, a large number of Chinese (and the international community in general) never bother to ask the Taiwanese what they think or want. And when they do and the Chinese don’t like what they hear, they (not all) often snap.

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  26. 23 million people get to decide who their president is, to make their own law, to decide their taxation system, to have their own flag, their own national anthem, their own currency and military. If this does not define a “country”, please tell me what a country is. Taiwan is going to continue to flourish regardless the bully on the other side of the strait.

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  27. Kevin. A better analogy is this. How would Americans feel if Mexico insists that US is part of Mexico?

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  28. “the nationalistic doctrine that was drilled into young Chinese from a very young age”, this statement is woefully inaccurate, this doctrine is not drilled into all young Chinese from a very young or any other age, certainly the rich, likely communist party member children, seen here will have strong views, for most ordinary Chinese they really couldn’t care less.

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  29. As an American expat living in both China and Taiwan for the past 10 years, I can tell you the two countries feel completely different. Two completely different cultures. It would be a shame to allow the bigger, ruder less educated one impose its will on the smaller, kinder, more civilized, more informed one.
    China could learn and progess so much by adopting the many facets of Taiwanese culture that the world loves the Taiwanese people for. Instead they insist in dragging Taiwan backwards into their culture of impolite ignorance.

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  30. the analogy is way off…. how would you feel if when becoming part of a country that claims to you’re part of represents loosing your freedom?

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  31. The Four Asian Tigers: South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore. They all are countries, not regions. Stop bullying only because you guys have the size and resources. China wants to play as a big brother in Asia but a brother who oppress and bullies the other won’t be able to be respected. I see many rich arrogant chinese kids around and through them I see China as a role in Asia.

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  32. Your analogy makes no sense… Was the US formed by people who migrated from Mexico??? If you want to use this analogy try Britain. A Mexico to US analogy would be something like China to Korea, or Italy to Spain. If it wasn’t for your other comment I wouldn’t even know which “side” you were on.

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  33. Hi, I am a Taiwaness. I would like to say Taiwan is a country rather than a province of China, that’s what I think. How could Chinese people say that Taiwan is part of them? please, respect us and remember that Chinese have no right to represent as a Taiwaness to say anything in Taiwaness position.

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  34. Clearly Taiwan is a country, and the Chinese govt bullies other nations with economic ultimatums to deny this obvious fact. Elections, military, currency, flag, embassies offices around the world (called Trade Commissions for appearance sake but they offer every service that other embassies offer), freedom to demonstrate and protest against govt policies, freedom of information on the internet, and more. Taiwan is obviously a better country to live in than China!!

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  35. If money through international trade were not an issue, most of the world would recognize Taiwan as a country. Instead they pander to China to get their piece of the economic pie.

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  36. Pro taiwan is fine. you can preach and suck up to taiwan however you want, but translating a social website’s article to support your arguments is weak, and it shows how much you are subjective and bias. i wondered how much had the chinese traumatized you

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  37. The diplomatic thing to do next year would be to change the heading to “countries and regions”. It’s like agreeing to disagree because nobody would be able to definitely mark Taiwan as a country or a region on the list, and it would allow both sides to work together. That’s diplomacy.

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  38. If u weren’t sure just don’t post a blog to bias people.
    Those who complained r teachers, not students!

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  39. I cannot think of anything more insignificant than a Model UN meeting. Apparently there isn’t a bit of news too trivial for this reporter as long as it serves the purpose of sowing discord between Taiwan and the mainland.
    That being said, the actions of the mainland Chinese students was ridiculous. The Republic of China (the legitimate and only government of Taiwan) is a sovereign and independent nation in every way that you can define it. In fact it is the elder brother of Chinese governments. So, when mainlanders insult it they are being unfilial. And Regardless of your views on the status of Taiwan, one thing is quite clear: Taiwan has never been ruled by the People’s Republic of China.
    Also, there is some flexibility in the English word “country.” For example, Scotland is a country (a constituent country of the United Kingdom). It isn’t recognized by the UN. It doesn’t have an independent military or many of the other things one associates with statehood. If the English can call Scotland a country, then why can’t mainlanders call Taiwan a country?

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  40. Mr. Wang is absolutely correct. Taiwan has never been ruled by the People’s Republic of China. There are actual history evidence that proves this. Originally, PRC and ROC were the two governments in China. After Chinese Civil War, ROC retreated to Taiwan. Then, ROC resigned from UN while PRC became one of the members in the Security Council. PRC enforced the “One China Policy” in which the world can only recognize PRC as the only China in the world. After that point, PRC continued to rule China while ROC ruled Taiwan. However, it is important to note that PRC has actually NEVER ruled ROC. Therefore, ROC was never part of PRC. To this day, the official name of Taiwan is still ROC. Since ROC was never part of PRC, it is ridiculous to even think that Taiwan is part of China.

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  41. Most countries unrecognized Taiwan in 1970-1972, when China’s economy was incredibly backward and traded little with the outside world, a pattern which was believed to continue for a very long time. They didn’t recognize Taiwan/PRC because both countries claim to be China, while only one could be recognized. The switch was made because of the fundamental injustice of not recognizing a country that represented the national interests of 1/4 of the world’s population due the fact that it was communist.

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  42. What non-sovereign state have its own independent military, its own independent judiciary, its own independent executive government, and its own independent legislature? None of what I have listed is answerable to beijing in any way, by that much Taiwan is its own sovereign nation in reality, if not in name. Taiwan has all the powers of a sovereign nation, and the only thing stopping Taiwan being recognized as a country in its own right is china’s bullying tactics on any other nation who would recognize Taiwan’s sovereignty, or use bribes through economic incentives to have nations cut relations with Taiwan, as china have done with many African nations once having foreign relations with Taiwan on a sovereign nation level.

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  43. Chinese people don’t give a damn or care about taiwan, they really don’t need a little extra little island and they are big enough already. Untied states as big daddy of taiwan. Have no idea why the United States does not support Taiwan independence. Why 99% countries in the world don’t recognize taiwan as a country. POOR Taiwanese.

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  44. Both North and South Korea are represented in the UN. Why not both PRC and ROC? I understand there is the issue of the fact that China has a permanent seat on the security council. But surely some compromise could be made. I’m sure today’s ROC would be fine without having that seat.
    Also, the PRC is disingenuous. It recognizes both Koreas. However, if either Korea was to recognize the ROC (Taiwan) today, then it would retaliate against them. What a double standard!

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  45. Sometimes it just a matter of translation and pronunciation. People in mainland China think PRC(People’s Republic of China)=China=’Zhong Guo'(中国or中國). As a result, Taiwan (Republic of China), of course, is part of ‘China’. Taiwanese think ‘Zhong Guo'(中国or中國)=mainland China ruled by CCP. So Taiwan is not a part of ‘Zhong Guo'(中国or中國). But I don’t think they’ll deny they belong to China, since the complete name of Taiwan is ‘Republic of China’.

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  46. Facts about Taiwan:
    Own International Country Code: 886
    Own Currency: New Taiwan Dollar
    Own first-level domain: .tw
    Own Military. Backed by the Taiwan Relations Act (TRA ; Pub.L. 96–8, 93 Stat. 14, enacted April 10, 1979; H.R. 2479)
    Own President/Parliament, elected in free elections
    Own judiciary system
    Own Language: Taiwanese. Two generations before me spoke Taiwanese and Japanese and not Mandarin.
    Taiwanese language does not come in written form
    Written language (Mandarin) in Taiwan is different from that in China albeit the spoken language is similar.
    Taiwanese do not pay taxes to China!
    Own passport
    Americans do not need visa to travel to Taiwan. Same goes for Japanese, Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians, etc.
    Taiwanese do not need visa to travel to the United States, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, etc.
    Chinese need visa to go to Taiwan or the U.S. or the rest of the most of the part of the world
    Taiwanese need visa (“Taiwanese Compatriot Permit”) to travel to China – does this even make sense to you?
    Taiwanese are charged foreigners admission fees to enter parks in China – what the heck?
    Actually, try this – call or visit a Chinese embassy, tell them he wants to apply for a visa to go to Taiwan and see what you get.

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  47. “What matters is what the 23 million of Taiwan want and believe. Get off your couch, come visit Taiwan, and ask THEM whether they think they’re part of the PRC, or see this as a desirable outcome. I’ll bet you you won’t like what you hear — but hey, that’s a fact.” – Interesting point here, I believe there are other regions in this world where the local people want to either establish independent states, or join other countries, would you support all of them?

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  48. Paradite: If the to-be-created state would be viable (as Taiwan/ROC certainly would), and if the decision to secede (or conversely, not to be annexed via irredentism) is reached via peaceful, inclusive, and democratic means, then yes, absolutely, I would support it. After all, isn’t people’s right to self-determination in line with the UN spirit? Twenty-three million people and the world’s 19th largest economy, an advanced industrial base and a fully globalized presence, Taiwan has everything it needs to work as an independent sovereign state – it’s already proven that this is the case.

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  49. The thing is, it is not only PRC acclaims that Taiwan is part of China, but according to the constitution of ROC, China mainland is also a part of ROC. The biggest consensus officially accepted by both sides, PRC and ROC, is that there is only one China in the world. The current situation of Taiwan and mainland is a legacy of China civil war (1945~1949), First & Second Sino-Japan war (1894~1895, 1937~1945), and even dates back to the period that Taiwan was under Qing Dynasty rule (1683~1895) and previous China dynasties, which is too complex to apply any previous case mechanically. Maybe that is why the issue is so controversial and I think we need to listen to both sides’ opinions; yet personally I don’t think it will be solved in the near future.

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  50. It’s funny that these people’s argument are all based on misrepresentations of HMUN’s idea, they changed the concepts from “country” to “independent country”, and from “participants’ nationalities” to “members of actual UN”. It’s called Straw Man fallacy, learn some critical thinking folks.
    Looks like our self-claimed teen patriots are flocking into here and doing the same thing as they did in HMUN. Time to stop, your behaviors are not appreciated and only going to isolate your country and your people.

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  51. Haha when I sppeak the truth I was frozen. Obviously I am not allowed to speak the truth because ….people in Taiwan actually 85% of Chinese descendants that’s the truth

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  52. etherlands” policy Taiwan is a Dutch province. Immigration into another country does not constitute a claim to minority rights – Han people moving to Taiwan opted to leave China and to become subjects of the Dutch crown. The uprising in the province – instigated by foreign forces I might add – does not change the legal status of the province, similarly the illegal occupation by Japan after China’s declaration that Taiwan did not belong to their territory. The ROC was asked by the US to adminstrate the Island but never established ownership of the territory.
    The Island belongs to the Netherlands and should be returned to them. The Dutch claim is superior in all aspects to the Chinese one, and the Japanese one. The Chinese never controlled the Island, the Japanese relinquished their claim to the US and the Dutch were their much earlier than either of them.

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  53. Sovereignty is not a question to discuss. It is a bottom line to be defended. We can be very liberal in other regards. However, China is always ONE China, be it Republic of China or People’s Republic of China. I have no problem if Taiwan government takes over mainland China. I actually hope them to do so (however it seems very unlikely). If there is recognized valid legal base for Taiwain to be an independent country, I will accept that. However it seems there is none. There are plenty legal documents and agreements that there is only ONE China, however each party is entitled to their own explanations.
    So the label is indeed inappropriate and Harvard admin team should apologize. If they put as country and region, i am open to the interpretation that Republic of China is THE China and PRC is a region.

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  54. Taiwan is not a country. The name is republic of China. You should also count the people living in Jinmen

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  55. 无知的中国学生,真让人可笑。首先表明立场,我支持中华民国台湾,西北工业大学的邓冰玉等同学们真的是很过分。

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  56. @Allen Yang: Agreed. The Republic of China had the goal to expel the Manchuians, revive Zhonghua (中華), and establish a unified government. Sun Zhong San’s Three Principles of People was about Zhonghua minzhu (中華民族), minquan (民權), and minsheng (民生). Zhonghua represented all 56 Chinese ethnicites.The ROC laid claim to all China: all of mainland including Taiwan. Hence, whether you think ROC or the PRC is the ruling power, both parties has the same claim.
    Now, just because there is more cowards around who is too scared to fight the Communists, that still doesn’t change either national carter.

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  57. So the guy .. The smartass who would made the comment argying Taiwan is not a country saying what about kinmen is disingenuous. Little bitty kinmen. Listen … Taiwan supports kinmen !!! Some say kinmen can be considered an offshore island of taiwan proper !! Or that when one counts the population of Taiwan .. It includes kinmen. Or let’s just say Taiwan has jurisdiction over kinmen. But to use kinmen to hijack Taiwan as not being a country is disingenuous… Think of it this way then huh … TAIWAN controls kinmen!! So yeah Taiwan is a country. It has a distinct border. Has an independently operating govt! Takes care of its own jurisdiction .. Has a set population !! Yeah it’s a country. If it looks like and quacks like a duck… It’s a duck! Junmen issue is easy to resolve if that smartass wants to make it a big deal.. Releasing sovereignty over kinmen to china is easy to do!! Therefore .. A non issue ! Also to make it more accurate republic of china is not a country.. Just name of the government. Taiwan is the country. If the kmt is going to argue Taiwan is ROC .. Then Aldo by that interpretation. … Taiwan is a country !!!

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  58. How convenient for those clinging on to the Rep of china dream to use kinmen as way to hijack Taiwan’s status as a country! How disingenuous of these people. To use an offshore island that’s like a booger with a sparse population to obstruct the larger island real estate with 23million people is an affront to the Taiwanese people!! So let’s make it clear! When people refer to Taiwan as an entity… A country , it implies and does include kinmen as it also already includes penghu, green island, orchid island, as well.

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  59. Unfortunately for the Chinese people that the modern society is increasingly becoming more diversed and multi-cultural due to globalisation. They will continue to struggle unless they learn to acknowledge and respect different values and opinions. You don’t have to agree with it, but you should respect other people’s opinions and values. The Secretary has tried to resolve the problem, but the outcome of the event was just tragic. The post made by the delegate on renren.com was the roundabout comment victimising themselves on how they have been mistreated and how they have been discriminated by the organiser.
    They obviously didn’t see the full picture and realised 1. they have discriminated against the Taiwanese representatives and put them in an awkward position 2. They’ve embarrassed themselves internationally with their anger fits 3. in what position are they to demand (not even requesting) the rest of 3000 participant + organisers to run the event their way.
    Seriously, it just seemed like a child being public nuisance by throwing a big tantrum because they have been given vanilla ice-cream instead of chocolate flavour.
    The solution is easy. There are rules and structure is to how these events are run. You can observe that from past events too. If you strongly disagree with what they do, you can choose to not participate. It’s a choice that has been given.

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  60. I’m as pro-TI as the next.. pro-TI person. but the bare facts do make me sympathetic for the Chinese students:
    ‘conference handbook contained the word Taiwan in its list of “international participants by country”’ – this is currently erroneous; Tw is an economic entity.
    ‘accusing the organizers of having a “poor understanding” of international relations’ – they did appear to..
    elsewhere I compared this to a Euro university stating that New England is a part of Canada (i didn’t say it was a perfect comparison). would the average American be a little perplexed and maybe put out by that?
    the stickers thing sounds like an idea that seemed good at the time but really was pretty patronising.
    that aside, I’m going to assume that it was the reactions from the students and their subsequent refusal to compromise that got them removed. which is an ironic shame as those things would probably have made them good representatives at the conference.

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  61. I am a Taiwanese myself, but I don’t believe Taiwan is a country either. It is a fact that Taiwan never declared independence, AND it is indeed not part of the UN. Just like Scotland is still part of the UK, Taiwan is still technically part of China. You simply can’t be a country without declaring independence. It seems HMUN is the ignorant one here for not willing to correct their own mistake. How would you feel if someone would to tell you that you are not allowed to consider your brother as a member of your family just because the rest of the world seems to think that way?

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  62. The UK is a sovereign state, rather than a country in and of itself. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England are all countries, although I note that Scotland in its current state doesn’t warrant a separate seat at the UN (falls under the UK). Scotland almost became independent of the UK; had it done so I would guess that it would have become something like Australia or Canada with Queen Elizabeth II as head of state. Or it may have become a republic. Identity wise though, there is a definite Scottish identity that is not felt (by most) to be threatened by the country’s inclusion in the United Kingdom. Overall, it’s a similar and at the same time, very different situation to that which Taiwan faces.

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  63. Nobody realised what she said about copyrights? In such a context, it was priceless humor(even if unintented).
    ” The conference handbook is copyright property and cannot be reproduced, in whole or in part, in print or electronically, without written permission.” That’s is Harvard telling them, you are in the USA and when in Rome… Bright people cornering angry people, just priceless.

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  64. 跟沒腦筋的人講道理是沒用的,何必對一個跟自己沒大關係的地方吵鬧?代表大國就專心做對國際有貢獻的事。

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  65. Taiwan is not a state present in UN, but it is not a province of China either, at least it never has a communism history. I’m not saying the Chinese students’ actions are totally wrong, on college common application, there’s a prompt called “question authority”, if I’m those students at that time, I would question the template too, but there’s no reason to be furious. I like the idea of countries and region or states and nations more accurately according to human geography text book.

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  66. The logic of anti-Taiwanese independence escapes me. Republic of China (ROC) was the controlling authority of Mainland China until 1949 when the Communists took over and formed People’s Republic of China (PRC). So shouldn’t PRC declare independence from ROC instead?
    It’s like the U.S. won the revolutionary war and asks U.K. to declare independence from the U.S… Oh wait, it’s like the U.S., after winning the revolutionary war, tells the U.K. to NOT declare independence or else the U.S. will invade U.K. What kind of logic is that?!
    China is getting bigger and stronger but instead of becoming a Big Brother like the U.S., it’s becoming the playground bully. The question, when will it grow up and assume a leadership role? And until then, who will stand up to it?

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  67. Taiwan and main land China are all part of R.O.C. Republic of China, period, Young Chinese and Chinese who call themselves Taiwanese should learn their history right. Do not deny your root just because you were not in the history making.

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